Capitalism Socialism

More often these stories showcase a substantial value shift by the population to allow for this sort of dystopia to happen. It’s more of a criticism of bad values overall, or at least extremes of it. Ones that aren’t really realistic. Like you expect me to really believe literally no one else in this dystopia has a problem with something just because it basically “makes more money”? That’s an abjectly insane population, not really capitalism. More like a criticism in conformity and collectivism. Capitalism allows societal values to shift, it doesn’t cause them to shift. It gives power to certain values and reflects societal values. It gives incentive to align with certain values, but not forced to do so. Humans can and do value more than pure material and capital. The fact people have this discussion all the time is great and demonstrates that exactly. Our values don’t just shift in the presence of a system that doesn’t respect them. We just tolerate the system and the best of us try and change the system to value those things. The free market specifically allows that. – Jay Marcum

Jay Marcum The free market doesn’t “specifically” allow any such thing. You are talking about a system where both lawmakers and dissenting voices can be bought or silenced. The surface of the planet right now is exploding in burning fuel and people have been more concerned about the finals of Succession / GoT etc. That is your dystopia right there.

Jay Marcum there are millions in the world today that are okay with exceptionally evil shit because it makes them more money so yeah, its totally believable

Jay Marcum Capitalism is the root of all problems – environmental, social and economic – in the world. Unbridled capitalism is destroying the earth, creating wars and supporting poverty globally.

Jay Marcum – that’s a nice word salad but capitalism is flawed because once you run out of capital to aquire – the system fails. Free markets always sound good in theory but once capital becomes lopsided in a free market – it leads to monopolies which accelerate capital being lopsided and top-heavy and ultimately the same resulting failure. If a government puts safeguards to limit monopolies – it’s no longer a free market – it’s a regulated market. In America we had those safeguards put in place after the great depression but those with excessive capital pooled their money and influence and made those go away starting in the late 70’s and early 80’s and here we are again teetering on the brink of recession/depression due to monopolization and greed – at the detriment of society at large. Moral values may not be changeable in a single person – but people can be incentivized to ignore those values in exchange for monitary gain. Over time – people can be made to adopt these “new morals” that work within new socialital constructs – or to suffer the consequences of having morals that don’t fit within this “new norm”. People in China didn’t willingly decide to give up their right to privacy. It was the last thing taken from them in a long process of losing rights. We have suffered the same violations here in the US – losing more and more rights each year. In this way capitalism and communism both build out “classes” of society that come with either privileges or oppression depending on which class you fall into. Socialism is designed to make the whole of society worth more then the sum of it’s parts or in this case individuals. It does mean less individual freedom and wealth for individuals that were in the highest tier of the class system – but that cost is balanced by the cementing of basic rights for all and no individual crippling poverty. Rich and powerful people will almost always be against socialism because they see the loss for themselves. Poor and oppressed people will embrace socialism because they see it as gaining rights and privileges that were not available to them in a class system. The middle class becomes the vote that matters. If capitalism makes them better off they will embrace it. If socialism gives them more opportunities then capitalism has – they will embrace it instead. These all consider a well educated population capable of reasoning what works best for them. Here in the US we have hacked the human brain to make people believe that the Economy and Jobs are the measurements to gauge the success of our system. The overall standard of living for the middle class should be the gauge we use instead at a minimum. The treatment and care of the worst off of us – would be an even better measurement if you want to look at it based upon morality. A failure of society to protect it’s most vulnerable – is a failure of that society in general.

Orwell warned about totalitarian states in general, not just socialist and communist specifically (although certainly those as well!). A central point in 1984 is that it doesn’t really matter what ideology a state names itself to follow, it will still be at risk of turning totalitarian, and once a system is totalitarian, it is basically the same as other totalitarian regimes, again despite what they call themselves. By only focusing on some types of regimes (for instance communism) as THE evil, we risk overlooking regimes that turn totalitarian without being communist. In fact, in 1984 the world is made up of three totalitarian states, and each one maintains their own rule by keeping public focus on fighting the other two. – Dennis Eyler

Dennis Eyler wrong, he warned against authoritarianism, not socialism, he was a life long socialist who hated Stalinism